Podcast

anon says:

This podcast was amazing! I was with the person who he had never intended to come out to. His brother knew but obviously kept it as if he was/is his brothers keeper… The reveal was like someone had killed a part of me. Of course I felt every emotion and am still trying to process it. I don’t believe time heals all wounds……

Anon. says:

I found this a fascinating listen and am recommending it to all my friends! I am both psychologically minded, and a Christian. I picked up on several points from Ev that crystallize my own beliefs around forgiveness, and I also learnt lots! Even though forgiveness is really at the heart of the Christian gospel, I had lots to learn about it in practice over the last few years.
For context, my gay ex-husband and I now have a good relationship (14 years married, 2 kids, 1 year separated, and now 1 year divorced). It has certainly taken lots of work for us both to reach this reconciliation- and certainly it is a work in progress. The secular relationships counsellor we saw when we first separated did not understand at all! But I’m so grateful that my faith has given me the resources to be able to forgive- both for his sake and for mine.

Teresa Upton says:

A really interesting podcast thanks – leaves a lot to think about around the subject of forgiveness.
After over 12 years, a long absence and then a reconciliation as friends, I feel I’ve gone a long way along this route. I find I’ve forgiven the 16 year old who entered into a relationship with me, especially as we had for the most part a very happy marriage and four lovely children. I found it helpful to think of the boy rather than the man when it came to forgiving him and understanding his dilemma.

Theresa Wangeman says:

I’ve been working on the process of forgiveness in therapy. It is a process. My process hasn’t been as long as others, I’m not sure why? My therapist tells me that it’s because I’m resilient. I think that coming to terms with my situation and letting go of the fears that come with it has allowed me to move forward more quickly. I had to remind myself over and over that forgiveness is not saying that the betrayal was okay, instead, it’s saying that it was NOT okay, but I forgive you anyway. My divorce will be final tomorrow. I’ve come a long way thanks to therapy, friends, and ourpath!

Lisa says:

Thank you for this. I wish my ex had agreed to navigate these huge changes with a therapist together. He would not, however, and accused me of being self centered to request that instead. He told me to find my own therapist to deal with it, alone, and that he would do the same.

Terri says:

Thank you for allowing us a glimpse into your life and the life of your husband Terry(sp?. I am just starting down the path of discovery after finding out my husband is bisexual or gay and very much closeted. I an still trying to find some sense of reality.

I am so sad about all that Terry went through and how difficult it must have been for you. I understand the approach of accepting things and moving on. The logical, academic mind seems to create this type of trajectory. We think our emotions have been spent in quick fashion, but they linger in the shadows waiting
to be heard.

Tracy says:

Common History – that is awesome that you can still find that. I have had to shut my switch off for myself because of his current relationship. You are doing these things with your new husband. I don’t have a relationship and watching theirs unfold, grow and when all they talk about is their new house, their trips (esp Seattle) and so much more. Still crushed by that and that is why I have pulled back from doing things together. Firmly believing I will heal more without his/their presence in my life. It was a hard choice with my boys but they get it and hate seeing me suffer. You can only hide so much in your own home.
I hope that someday I can get where you are but for now I am still healing lots.
Really enjoyed hearing you and relating to what I could.

Karen Slater says:

Hi Sandra, I’m so pleased my interview resonated with you, and you are definitely not alone! That’s horrible, that your gay husband told you it was your personality that turned him off, because no amount of losing weight will fix that, right?? Such a disingenuous thing for him to say. Think of the weight loss as something you did for you, so you can be healthier. While you may have done it to please him, in the end his “not even noticing it” shouldn’t make you feel like a failure. Also, I want to tell you that your rage is very normal. I went through the five stages of grief TWICE… once in the 7 months, and then again after he moved out.

So in an effort to answer your question (re how to keep the emotions from boiling over in his presence), I need to ask you… have you had an opportunity to tell him how you really feel? That you feel like you can’t be a woman? If he is looking for forgiveness, then I think you need to get all of this off your chest. Once you have done so, you may get the apology that I got. But even if it takes time to get the apology, I think you will feel better simply by telling him exactly how you feel. I know I did! After that, it does become easier to forgive. And the forgiveness lifts a huge weight off your shoulders. But if you are holding in all your emotions all the time, then it will continue to be difficult to forgive and let go of the anger. Also, please see a therapist if you aren’t already doing so. And don’t be afraid of anti-anxiety meds… they helped me SOOOOOOO much! They do not have to be a lifetime answer to your problems… just a tool to help you through the hard times.

Anyway, I strongly encourage you to talk to your husband… you absolutely deserve a life of happiness and love. Do NOT give him the power to steal your happiness from you!!!! Obviously you are just going to have to go through this process (the one none of us ever wanted) and there are no shortcuts to getting through it. But you are strong and a survivor, and you have a kid who loves his mom very much. There truly can be a better life after TGT. I can’t even begin to tell you how very much happier I am with my 2nd husband than I EVER was with my first husband. Sending you lots of hugs and positive vibes.

Karen says:

Lynn, your message means so much to me! I’m so glad my story resonated with you. It’s always amazed me how much all of our stories are so different, and yet they are all so much the same. 33 years of marriage is such a long time! I’m glad you’ve found your people now… we hear and get you.

Lynn says:

I have been listening to your Podcast since I found it last summer after discovering my husband is gay after 33 years of marriage and 3 children. I felt so alone until I started listening and felt I had found my people. This particular episode with Karen Slater really spoke to me and was such a familiar story. I felt like she was telling my story. Please pass this onto Karen she has really made me feel seen and understood.
Thank you and please keep doing what you are doing; it is so important to many of us.
Lynn

Teresa Upton says:

An interesting episode – I think the point about what having a partner who isn’t attracted to you sexually does to your self-image is something I’ve really observed over the years. It is something we can rectify but this takes time and a lot of positive affirmation. This affects both men and women who have had an LGBT partner/spouse.

Teresa Upton says:

Wow! There was a lot in that I wanted to take issue with – and I’m not even a man with a gay wife!! It made me extremely angry in parts. A lot of parts. I also feel concerned for the SPA men listening to it.

David says:

Terribly sad in more ways than one. For me it is sad because of how eerie the similarities between his wife and mine and our respective marriages and sustained rejection, manipulation and emotional “abuse” for want of a better word. And yet, in our case it was me who came out. So, to my knowledge my wife isn’t a Lesbian, but she certainly exhibits almost all of the traits Wade describes (except the infidelity) – and in terrifying detail. I gasped as he described my married life. But I am the Gay one and I did cheat on her. But for almost all of our marriage I was the one going to therapy to fix what she constantly told me was “wrong” with me, and with me striving to be better to avoid her repeated criticisms and accusations of being the grumpy narcissist she told me I am – due to my childhood and family of origin – whom she constantly criticized and forced me to shun. So I wonder if the character of Wade’s wife speaks more to what she is actually like as a person, rather than her sexuality. I am certainly confused by this. Yes. I now know I am gay and that I didn’t know enough about myself when I got married. There were warning signs a mature person should have recognized and owned up to – and yet I didn’t. For that I am deeply sorry and regret in more ways you can imagine, but did the fact my wife married a closeted gay man make her into the sort of projecting soft narcissist that Wade describes. Surely my being gay and my ongoing denial and removal from her of all the relevant facts is not the sole cause of her being a manipulative person who came to our marriage with an MO to gaslight me.

It does take two to tango. Our respective proclivities made our choice for each other inevitable. There is no victim and perpetrator here. There is just a tragic confusion on both sides. No one deserves this, neither the straight spouse nor the gay spouse. While we remain seeing this in simplistic binary good guy – bad guy, villain and saint terms, there can be no healing.

We know from attachment theory that this is how relationships work. It’s a both are helplessly wrong sort of thing, and the very things which attract us to our mate are the same things that trigger the childhood trauma that got us to that point in the first place. The gay thing is undeniably huge, but it is certainly not the only elephant in the room. It is naive to suggest it is. It’s also unfair to cast it in the light of being somehow bigger than other issues both brought to the marriage. This seems especially true when we consider that coming out is not a linear process and that 99% of gay spouses simply didn’t know they were gay when they walked down the aisle. It’s in fact very cynical for the straight spouse to now infer a deliberate long-term deceit,

I would hope the straight spouses take the opportunity to work on why they missed the cues and why they walked into this situation. God knows the gay spouse has had to confront those demons too. I do not know any gay spouse who doesn’t have enormous compassion for their straight spouse and regret for what’s happened.

I feel I identify so closely with Wade. He is my brother in suffering.