08 – Voices Podcast

When Christine discovered her husband was gay after thirteen years of marriage, at first she felt relief that the disconnect between them had been explained. Anger and grief came much later. But when her oldest child came out as trans a few years later, she felt her grief first. Many straight spouses in mixed orientations marriages have LGBT+ children and face the challenge of reconciling conflicting feelings around those respective comings out. On today’s show, our guest talks about the dissonance between her feelings when her spouse came out and when her child came out, and how she worked through the feelings to find acceptance.

Ray Alex Williams used to go by the name Rachel. A former trans woman, today he refers to himself as a detransitioner. In this episode, he shares his perspective on his own transition process, including his true motivations for transitioning. 

Exploring a diversity of essential perspectives like Ray’s can provide wives whose husbands have come out as trans with honest and vital information about gender transition in their own marriages, so they are better able to make fully informed decisions for their own lives. 

X: @RayAlexWilliams

YouTube: https://www.youtube.com/@RayAlexWilliams

Dr. Ben Schilaty, a social work professor and therapist, explains the six stages of coming out, first observed by Dr. Vivienne Cass in the 1970’s, and the experiences of LGBT+ spouses going through these stages. This conversation aims to shed light on the various behaviors straight spouses may witness from their LGBT+ partners, as well as to give context to straight spouses’ experiences as their partners progress through the various stages. 

Ben is the author of A Walk In My Shoes: Questions I am Often Asked as a Gay Latter Day Saint and cohosts the podcast “All Out in the Open” with his friend Charlie Bird. He is a cofounder of the Gather Conference which offers Christ-centered support to LGBTQ Latter-day Saints and those who love them.

Website: https://www.benschilaty.com

Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/benschilaty/

Podcast: https://questionsfromthecloset.com

Filmmaker Vaishnavi Sundar discusses her recently released documentary: Behind the Looking Glass, which delves into the lives and experiences of women whose partners have, or want to, transition. With voices from women worldwide, this film is the first of its kind. Today’s conversation touches on pornography, coercive control, emotional, financial and sexual abuse that for some women, coincide with their husbands identifying as trans. 

Vaishnavi is a writer and a self-taught filmmaker from Chennai, India. Through her films, she advocates for the rights of women and girls worldwide. A decade ago she founded Lime Soda Films with the aim of highlighting themes of social justice, women’s empowerment and education. She is the Founder of Women Making Films (WMF) – a platform for female filmmakers to collaborate and create works of art, and has had the privilege of hosting the work of members from more than 20 countries.

Behind the Looking Glass film: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Frffv2sB8zE

Website: https://limesodafilms.com

Twitter/X: @LimeSodaFilms

Tom Jones was married to a woman for 22 years and hid in a deep closet in denial. His wife was aware of his same sex attraction early on, but not the depth of it. A positive HIV status and an acute addition to crystal meth deeply impacted their marriage and lives, resulting in divorce. His wife was diagnosed with cancer and passed away just two years following their divorce, requiring Tom to raise their two daughters. Although close at the end of his wife’s life, Tom, now 68, feels they never had to opportunity to truly mend. 

In this episode, he shares how he believes his cowardice and inability to accept himself for who he was impacted the lives of his wife, his family, and those around him. He has carried deep remorse for his choices, and wants straight spouses to know they are deserving of accountability and amends. 

Not only was OurPath Volunteer David Harte surprised to learn his wife was a lesbian, he was surprised that her family already knew she was. “One of her friends told me [my wife] had come out in her early 20’s. That wasn’t accepted by her family at all, hence, when I met her, her family were very encouraging of us getting married and having a child. I didn’t realize they were trying to marry her off.”

Ten years later, David has found purpose and healing in paying forward the invaluable support he received from OurPath while in the early days after disclosure.

Today’s episode features a presentation of the Minwalla Model of Deceptive Sexuality and Complex Trauma Treatment. In 2006, Dr. Omar Minwalla began to study the signs of Complex Trauma related stress in people whose spouses had committed infidelity. Minwalla’s powerful educational metaphor, the “Secret Sexual Basement”, has made the personal, relational, and sociological abuses that comprise deceptive sexuality accessible to everyone. 

By putting the spotlight on the harms of “deceptive sexuality,” Minwalla shows how clinically significant deficits in integrity enable infidelity and can rise to the level of an Integrity Abuse Disorder, which he categorizes as a form of intimate partner abuse. 

From here we take Minwalla’s model a step further and posit that closeted LGBT+ spouses in mixed orientation marriages have a Secret Sexual Basement of their own. This compartmentalized secret sexual reality not only contains secret sexual behaviors that may or may not be going on, but also contains their hidden or obscured sexual orientation or gender identity. It’s not just that deception is employed to cover infidelity, it’s that, intentional or not, deception may be deployed to cover sexuality itself.

In the case of marriage closets, as with infidelity, concealment behaviors, manipulation and deceptive management of straight spouses constitutes patterns of emotional, psychological and relational harm that may give rise to symptoms of complex trauma in straight spouses.

DR. OMAR MINWALLA WEBSITE: https://minwallamodel.com

Irina’s discovery of her husband’s sexuality started from accidentally finding a social media account in a locked folder on his phone. Not thinking much of it at first, she enquired him about it, and he burst into tears and said, “I think I am bisexual.” He then shared the account and the rest of his private folder – the contents of which clearly indicated he was attracted to men, as well as women.

While feeling betrayed by his withholding such an important piece of information throughout their marriage, she was also impressed by his honesty in sharing his thoughts and emotions during the early weeks and months following the disclosure. She approaches her post-disclosure marriage as a new relationship—one with someone she knows has many good qualities, but whom she is still getting to know.

In today’s episode, Kristin obliges audience members who have wondered when she would finally tell her story. Her friend Angela Tonn, who had a front row seat to the implosion of Kristin’s marriage, joins her to turn the lens on Kristin and ask her the questions she normally asks other people on this show. 

If you’d like to know where to find Kristin, check out the links below:

Friend her on Facebook: https://www.facebook.com/kristin.kalbli

Follow announcements about her book, The Mercy Fake: The Story of One Fake Marriage, Lots of Fake Orgasms, and the Search for What’s Real

Instagram: @kristinkalbli Substack: https://substack.com/@kristinkalbli74 YouTube: https://www.youtube.com/@kristinkalbli7922